Trying To Conceive: A Couple Interviewd

Trying to conceive and not succeeding right off is a struggle that many couples face. There are not many things more difficult than wanting something and not being able to have it immediately, and when you want a new life in your family, the frustration mounts as you face month after month. Problems getting pregnant are really difficult because we can start to think of ourselves as faulty, and even less worthy. I wanted to bring this interview to you as way to encourage you in your journey. It is long, and it is heartfelt. It is an honest interview of not only alternative therapies and ideas, but also of what they faced in the day to day reality of not having a child when the desire was so big it was almost overwhelming.

Let me introduce the interview of Matt and Brandy. A relatively young couple who found that the journey through infertility, or sub-fertility as they like to think of it, is one of harrowing courage, necessary humor and a journey that has forever changed them. Remember, with this interview and any other you will read on Love Natural Birth, these opinions are just meant to let you know what other people are doing, thinking and facing. It is meant to help you see other options. Read, learn and choose your own path, for then you will be happy that you chose wisely. For a condensed version, read Trying to Conceive: An Act of Surrender. Ashley: In trying to conceive what came up first?

Brandy: We were waiting to get married, and then after we got married we were waiting to…

Matt:…finish grad school. We felt like that would be too busy, and I think there was another excuse for waiting. Like, “oh we don’t want to be living in an apartment.”

Brandy: We did start trying when we were still in the apartment, and it was fun at first. It was like un-chartered territory because we had never, you know you were always trying not to get pregnant. Instead of trying to get pregnant.

Matt: So we had to get over that hurdle. It was really weird! And so that was really interesting.

Brandy: And it was so exhilarating. So strange! Like, oh my god, we are trying to do this!

Matt: It was great. It’s not like it’s bad or you’re scared anymore.

Brandy: And even though we were trying, I think you were saying said (to Matt) “Oh crap, what if you’re pregnant” and then you’d remember, “oh wait we’re trying!”

Ashley: So you’d have moments after where you’d forget, oh this is okay. We’re trying now.

Matt: Right. Good. Good. Good. It was really weird for me, really hard to leave it in the past (the not trying).

Brandy: And then I feel like what happened is you’re so scared that you’re going to get pregnant. But then when you start trying you think, I thought immediately well, we’re going to get pregnant. Everybody warns you to be careful. And then when it didn’t happen the first month you’re kinda bummed. But then it’s like, we get to try again! So like for the first, I’d say the first 3-4 months I felt like it was a lot of fun and like that little secret that this is what we’re trying to do.

Ashley: So did you tell people you were trying to conceive? Or did you just go for it?

Brandy: I don’t think we told family or anybody like that. Did I tell you (to Ashley)?

Ashley: I think you did tell me, but I was trying to remember when. I think I remember you telling me you were going to wait until after the wedding, and that was the thing that I remembered.

Brandy: Yeah so, it might have been close friends we told. And then it was one of those things where I felt like it went through: we weren’t getting pregnant. So, I don’t want to tell people because, and this is looking back on it, but in the moment I don’t know that I knew this is what I was feeling. But I felt like a failure.

Matt: Yeah.

Brandy: That’s immediately what it felt like and it’s…

Matt:… scary.

Ashley: So, for 3-4 months it was fun and then it was starting to worry you.

Brandy: Yeah, probably in month six I think. You know the medical system had these dates, like if it takes you more than this amount of time then you should see somebody. If it takes you more than this much you should go on the drugs. Which is just totally bullshit. And it’s the same thing for when you’re pregnant and people say if you’re pregnant you have a different path. Which is complete bullshit. Because it’s completely arbitrary. You know, I tell, when I meet pregnant women or women who are trying to get pregnant and they say you know “I am 35 or whatever.” I say people age differently. You’re going to find a 35 year old who looks like she’s 25 and you’re going to find a 35 who looks like she’s 45. Her eggs probably age the same as looks. So, you have to think of that. So, I kind of felt like, going back to trying to conceive…started immediately feeling like a failure. I didn’t want to talk to anyone about it. You know me. I wanted to talk to people about it, but I didn’t want to talk to certain people about it. So, I probably talked to you and Mary and told you how difficult it was but I really didn’t, I was like: it took the fun away for a little bit.

Matt: Yeah.

Brandy: Which was a bummer because it was still such a fun, exciting time. It’s just that and I think the other part is that people have this thing where a lot of people want to help you. So if you somebody who hasn’t been through this and say oh my gosh, I’m having this hard time and I feel like a failure, they just want to help you so they say things like: “I hear if you don’t stress about it, it’ll happen faster.” And things like that that are making you crazy.

Matt: Yes! So many of “old wives tales” of what’s going to help and it’s just about control. Ultimately that’s what we learned through that process. That we were trying to control something that is uncontrollable. And all the pieces like the fertility drugs, or concentrating on being positive, whether it’s different sexual positions…whatever it is that people are telling you on how to make a baby is just controlling. And we just have to let it go.

Brandy: We don’t have control. And the other thing that people don’t realize is that people are putting it in our hands. So people are saying “don’t stress about it” or “try this position” all of a sudden it’s about what we need to be doing to change it. It’s not, it’s out of your hands. You know if somebody had said, which maybe somebody did, but I’m not sure if I could hear them. You know, “it’s not up to you”, so take away all the pressure you have on yourself about if you’re in the right position, about doing every perfect little thing, take all that away and just let go because it will happen. I feel like that’s what someone in this position needs to hear rather than all these other BS things that make them feel like they are just doing something wrong.

Ashley: What else would have been helpful?

Brandy: Not a lot. Actually that’s part of my issue with this and part of why I wrote that book. Um, or compiled that book, because people don’t know what to say. Unless you’ve been in it, people don’t know what to say. And I feel like it’s like that with a lot of things in life. Every stage I get to in life I feel like I realize “oh man I’ve been probably saying all those things that I didn’t like now.” It’s all about evolving and maturing but…

Matt: There’s a stigma involved with it too and it’s like people don’t know what to say. They care about you, hopefully, and they tell you something that they think is helpful, but most of the time it’s not. They just try, they want to fix it and it’s not fixable. And that also assumes that something is broken, which is not true either. And that’s, I think the part of me that was difficult for people to understand. You know, we’re not any, it’s a fear. And it takes you to that place, we’re broken, we’re broken. How do we fix this? And you know that’s not the debate. The debate is about timing and it’s about a greater timeline and it’s not, it’s like we’re trying to activate it.

Brandy: It’s not a science and people make it out to be. You know sperm meets egg and then baby. But as we all know, clearly that’s not the case. And people are also not aware of, or willing to admit that we don’t know how birth happens. Yes there is something else that why some take and why some don’t. But we don’t directly know why. You know?

Ashley: So, was this a process of: okay, you started out and you thought we’ll just get pregnant, and then so you’re not getting pregnant what were you first thinking? Oh “we’ll try some alternatives, fertility alternatives” or were you right away “no we want it to happen naturally.” What were you thinking?

Matt: We did have a moment where we were like not going to do fertility, but we were going to get tested.

Brandy: Yes, lets get tested.

Matt: Yeah. Maybe we are broken.

Ashley: So, did you go through with that.

Matt: No. Very close.

Brandy: There were times when we were just not sure about what we wanted to do. And then, bottom line, we kept going back to, it just doesn’t feel right. We even made an appointment for you. Remember we called and made an appointment and then I called and cancelled it because we thought this is not how it’s supposed to be for us, for us to have a baby…it’s not about medicine being involved. And I know, he’s such a healthy guy, I know there’s nothing wrong with him. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with me. You know, I don’t want to be in this position, and it shouldn’t be like this.

Matt: It shouldn’t be about us being afraid that we’re sick. It should be about how exciting “we’re having this child”, we’re starting this journey. And you know how you get pregnant is part of the journey and there’s value in that. It’s not just getting pregnant it’s about us together, sharing in this. Sharing all that and learning from it. And I think a lot about what we did get out of it. A lot of this, let’s not live in fear. And I think that’s how, I don’t know how conscious we were of it, but I know that’s certainly what led us to have a home birth. To make all our decisions not out of fear. And there’s a lot that makes it so easy, in retrospect, to look back on and to feel like look at the timing of things. It’s always in retrospect that we see something, you know, how wonderful that it happened the way it did, cause we learned so much, or whatever it is! And I always wonder, what if we would have gone a different way or gotten pregnant right away, would we have the child we have now? No we wouldn’t, we absolutely wouldn’t. You know he may be the same soil, or made up of the same ingredients, but he wouldn’t have been the same person because he would have been in the world at a whole different time. And it’s like, that’s so amazing. And I love the child that we have now. And those things always make me like tune into my path, and my timing. The perfect time for us and in our short-sightedness we couldn’t see the greater plan.

Brandy: I think the biggest lesson that I learned out of it was surrender. So it was like, for those of us who like to be in control of their lives, it was an amazing lesson. I went from, it was around month 5-6 I was starting to think there’s a book out there Taking Charge of Your Fertility, and it’s the book for everyone trying to get pregnant goes and gets. And it talks about charting your temperatures and certain things, so I’m thinking, okay, I’ll chart my temperatures and then I’ll get a better handle. It was just, when I look back on it, it was just me totally trying to control the situation. So, I think I did that for about 3 months. And it was to make sure I ovulated, and I knew I was ovulating because I knew about cervical fluid and all these things. So, it was kind of pointless when you’re trying. So, anyway, month 3-4 of doing that, I got so upset, because I realized I can chart every month, but it doesn’t change if I’m pregnant or not! It’s just these statistics. That mean nothing.

Matt: Right.

Brandy: And so I realized I was trying to control this. And that was my first “you need to step back”. So, I was like, I’m not going to think about this, which is the impossible part is when your period is supposed to come. The week before and you’re wondering. “Is it coming, is it not coming?” That’s the hardest part. I could not get it out of my brain. So then after that happened I definitely didn’t want to do any fertility drugs. But then I said, “I can be the healthiest I can be.” That’s a good step, that’s how I can start doing this better. Which was another way of saying control. So here’s my second attempt at control. And I’d already learned I shouldn’t try to control it. But I thought: acupuncture! That’s the most natural thing that’s healthy for you anyway! So I started going to acupuncture and for maybe 2 months I did this. And I was just at one of my sessions one time and I broke down so emotionally and I realized, yet again. “This is just my form of controlling.” No, it’s not fertility drugs, and no it’s not charting. But that’s really when I learned that this should really not be put on me. It’s not about am I healthy enough. I know I’m healthy. I know my minds in a good place. I’m ready and so that’s where I stopped doing the acupuncture because I just don’t want to get my hopes up that this should make this happen. So after the acupuncture is when I felt like I got more of a zen attitude about it. But I also know it’s pretty hard to have a zen attitude for certain parts of the month. For the first half of the month, where I’m ovulating, it was totally great. You know, we’re know we’re not pregnant, so it’s fun again! You know, I wonder if this’ll be the month! Then after I ovulated, then that time is okay, but then the two weeks leading up to the period, the “am I or am I not”. That time leading up the the period: you know I’d go to have a glass of wine or something, and I’d think “but what if I’m pregnant”. Every little thing I’d feel that.

Ashley: I remember you feeling like you were having every symptom and then being frustrated that you weren’t. And you’d be saying, but I had those symptoms and not knowing. And feeling like you’re pregnant and not being pregnant was very frustrating.Brandy: Yep, every month when I really think about it, to do that, we tried for a year and a half, and to do that for 18 months straight is like to get beat down 18 months in a row. And to be picking ourselves back up and trying to be in a good place. That was what was really, really tough. Because after a while it starts to feel like even though we have a zen attitude and we think we’re healthy, but at some point… are we crazy?

Matt: I feel like for me I totally agree with all that, but I think in some weird way, it’s a culture of immediacy. We want everything right now. You think, whatever you think is the appropriate time for it to be there in your life. To have to face that we couldn’t have something we wanted was great. I mean it was terrible at the time, but it was really…we refer to that all the time. We still use that lesson in so many things. Like with some greater goals we are going after.

Brandy: Yeah, we’ll say “do you remember when we were trying to get pregnant.”

Matt: How long that was and that some things have a time on their own.

Brandy: The universe knew best.

Matt: Yeah, accept that. Give yourself up to that and when the timing is right the timing is right, it’ll always be right. It’ll be fantastic. It’ll always be the right thing.

Brandy: It’s so easy to say now that we have a baby. I met people who were trying for 6 years and 10 years. So, you know it really was when we got pregnant that within about a month all this stuff about trying to conceive really fell away. And it was such a weird feeling to be so in that mode and get those people who were going through it with me, and then to change modes so quickly. And then the minute we got pregnant to enter the pregnancy world. It’s like a great feeling because you don’t have that burden and that weight anymore. But it also is kind of crazy how all of a sudden you just change like that. I don’t know I thought part of me would always remember those feelings. And I do, but not…

Matt: Yeah, I think that’s one of the hardest things about finally being successful and being pregnant it’s almost like an unfair perspective. Because you get to be at peace with all that because you…

Brandy: Yeah, we can say all that…

Matt: And feel comfortable about it and feel like that was “oh I’m glad to have gone through it”. It’s only because we went through and achieved it! And it’s almost not fair.

Ashley: So, did you ever talk about adopting or any other options?

Matt: Not really. We probably would have at some point, but I don’t know. I don’t know what we, we tried to stay so far away from you know, what’s the next step. I don’t even think it was denial, but we were so entrenched in our belief that we were okay and that this was going to be the right path for us.

Brandy: You know we didn’t want to do any fertility drugs, but you know I always said, but you know check with me in six months, because I can understand that…

Matt: …you get to a point.

Brandy: That I can just crack. We had a friend, you know, we’d been trying for I guess a year and my friend comes up to me at a party and says, “yeah I have a friend of mine who it took them maybe a year and a half to get pregnant. That was so long to wait and they decided to do fertility drugs and so you guys should just totally do fertility drugs cause that’s a really long time to put your life on hold, to wait to have a baby.” And those were the type of comments that, especially after we’d been trying longer, that were not helpful at all. And luckily at that point I feel like the hardest stretch was around a year. 6 months to a year. That was the hardest part because we were just reaching a year and that’s when the medical profession says if you’re not yet pregnant you should take fertility drugs. Once we got past that and we decided we weren’t going to do it, it was a little bit easier to tell people we weren’t going to do it.

Matt: Thankfully, we did it the way we did. It’s so interesting because we couldn’t have a better child that fits our world. There’s probably, we could’ve gotten pregnant with fertility drugs 3 or 6 months out…

Brandy: … I don’t know, that’s a whole other topic, I don’t know.

Matt: …we could have forced it, perhaps. Perhaps.

Brandy: … with a different being. My whole thing about fertility drugs is I feel so funny about them because I feel like, I can’t tell like if they’re our destiny so they are part of the path or if they are this new thing that we can divert paths. I don’t know. I’m torn on that.

Matt: I think that’s what it is, this whole journey brought out in us and why it makes sense to us. It became about what is our destiny and what is the life we are making for ourselves. Because that is, that’s the philosophy that we derive our being from in our lives. We’ve realized that, so for us it became this very philosophical journey of what is our… and we started with there are multiple roads we could be on, we could take the longer road and stay natural because this is what we want, but there’s probably a million other roads we could take that would get us to a child but maybe not, well, it would take us off on a tangent a little bit, but we’d have a child! But it would be a different being, a whole world of difference. And those were the things we were thinking about ever day! It was so strange.

Brandy: And something else that I found really interesting was I think our friend and she had this thing, she was talking to her mom about it and her mom had, well, it was about 35 years ago that her mom was having babies and she said something like “oh, I can’t believe people are even getting freaked after not being pregnant in a year. When we were trying to get pregnant it could take years, but nobody would think anything of it.” You know back in the times before there were all these tests and this medicine and stuff, that’s just what everybody knew. Sometimes it takes people longer. His grandma had her son and then when she had Matt’s mom it took her 6 years to get pregnant. And she’s like 91 now. So I asked her one time, “how did you feel about that?” and she said oh, it wasn’t tough because we didn’t expect it, it wasn’t about maybe we were sick or something like that. She looked at me like I was nuts! And the lady down the street it took 9 years. And the lady there it took 4 years. The lady over there it took a day. And I don’t think that it was like they were all placing it in the universe’s hands or anything, it was just the way life was.

Matt: Right, it’s the way life was in the culture.

Brandy: That’s how it’s been since the beginning of time. Really, our society has totally effed up so many things that were just natural. Technology has just made things so much tougher than they really need to be.

Matt: …(unclear) wasn’t even part of the discussion.

Brandy: Yeah, I was like 6 years, that must have been so hard on you.

Matt: And I don’t even think she was thinking about it like we were counting the years. It was more about, okay in between children, okay so, it was about six years, because they are that much a part. I don’t even think it occurred to her, not like it was branded into her memory about how long it took: you know six years and it was so rough! And that’s a huge shift, a huge difference.

Brandy: Like being able to have an instant gratification. You know, I think it’s changed a lot how society deals with trying to get pregnant. And I think that’s where a lot of support for women is completely gone. You know people have good intentions, but people who love you want to fix what’s making you upset. And they don’t realize that we need to go through these bigger things.

Matt: To go through pain and sometimes, you know for us it’s what’s worked for us. And you know to each their own. Everyone has to go through birth in a different way. And for us it was a greater metaphor. That’s why we ended up choosing a home birth too, because there’s such a desire in our culture to cover up pain. To just not actually go through any pain, ever. Just don’t go through it and just skip all that and get to the place that you want to get to already. And that was really…you may get hurt and you may fall on your face, but that’s important, at least for us. And that’s what we discovered.

Brandy: And it made it that much more rewarding!

Matt: Exactly.

Brandy: And when we finally did get pregnant we were so stoked! Yeah! And I was so sick! And I felt complete guilt for going “why am I pregnant! I feel like crap!”

Matt: Yeah!

Brandy: I felt so guilty. I had just wanted something for a year and a half, and then I got it and it was like…

Matt: It was so overwhelming.

Brandy: Yeah, I was on the phone with my mom and telling her how sick I was and she’s like, “well your dad said, “well that’s what you wanted.” And I was like, “thanks!”That wasn’t exactly the part I wanted!

Matt: Picking up and talking about grandma, it seemed like a lot of the choices we were making were from a different time. Like we were making choices like people made 60-70-80 years ago, when my grandma was having children and even before that in some ways because she was still plugged into the hospital generation of birthing. We just kept on finding so much wisdom in doing things in this more traditional or old-fashioned way. Whatever you want to call it, natural…

Brandy: Which equals less fear based. And I think that was the bottom line.

Matt: Which was very strange, because I would never have expected that. I don’t think, we’re not Lemonites, we’re not afraid of technology or aren’t opposed to it. But yet, it just made more and more sense to stay away from all of that through this. For some reason, that’s where we wound up. And we continue to do that and it makes a lot of sense.

Brandy: I know we sound like Amish! I mean, the Amish are so genius! And like, we don’t enjoy the locks, but they’re just like a more simpler time.

Matt: There’s a real wisdom in that.

Brandy: We should become city-Amish.

Matt: Ergonamish! But it’s cool and weird how our lives are paralleling to that super throwback culture. That’s not interested in any modern, there’s a certain time-period that seems to make sense to them and they don’t have to go through any of that. And I sort of really understand why. Not that I really want to be a part of it, but I totally see why. Why it could feel good to be in a society where people think like you and you have those kind of friends and you don’t have to deal with any of this garbage. Do my modern conveniences make me more happy or more stressed?

Brandy: I think it’s funny when we’re at family parties and people are talking about birth, that I have more in common with the 90 year old. Those are the people I can really relate to, because anyone in the hospital culture and that whole thing, we have totally different experiences. So, it’s sad to me that in 10 years that culture will be almost gone. Cause those are my peeps! They understand what it was like to feel all that.

Matt: It’s even reflective in our diet and in some of the choices we make, what we want to entertain ourselves with. You know our…

Brandy:… lets not go too far, we do like reality tv!

Matt: Absolutely! But, not too many years ago organic food versus, well that’s just what there was. There wasn’t this sort of chemical agents and things. So it’s really amazing that it’s sort of very modern to be thinking this way, and yet it’s incredibly throwback and simple and almost like square. It seems very interesting to me that way.

Brandy: Just a little tangent.

Matt: Yeah. Sorry.

Ashley: Besides the 90 year old women, who else helped as far as helping you find your way?

Matt: Each other.

Brandy: Definitely each other. If I had known about, I didn’t know about it at the time when I was trying to get pregnant, but they have message boards, or posting boards and I would have been all over it because it’s natural-minded. I was on some boards on like a site called, but it was all very um, just like people who were on fertility drugs and having in-vitro. There was a ton of that so I could sympathize and bond with them over what it’s like to feel like your pregnant and not, but I had there, were it wasn’t exactly what I wanted. And so that’s the reason, I compiled that book together. Because I needed to, I felt like: this is a topic that nobody talks about, rightfully so. I mean you don’t really go up to strangers and say “you know, my cervical fluid is know.” And it’s really, you know admitting to people that you’re going through this is like admitting that maybe there’s something wrong with you. And you know, that feels pretty crappy. So, online felt the most supportive because you are this anonymous face and everyone is just open. And so, that’s why when I made up that questionnaire of 100 questions, I just wanted to know if other people were feeling these crazy things that I am, about everything. Like what do they think about doing the fertility drugs, and what crazy stuff they had done. I just wanted to bond on that kind of level. I would have loved to have had a friend in my life who was going through the same thing, even though I wouldn’t want them to go through it. But I was just like so yearning for somebody to share that with. So, that was at least nice. Getting the questionnaires back and reading them was like Christmas morning. It was just like, I remember laying next to him reading them at night and I would be going, can you believe these people feel the same way…listen to this! I don’t know about you, but for me it made everything, I felt so wonderful to be helping other women because, if you sent me your, I didn’t want them to think I was some pervert, so if they trusted me then they’d send me their stuff and then what I did was when everyone was done, I sent everyone’s to everyone. So we all got like a big batch. So, it was like, it was a great thing to go through. In terms of like helping other people and bonding all of us and just hearing the stories. That was really uplifting, because there is just not much out there. In terms of all the books that are out there are like “How to Get Pregnant” basically saying you’re the problem.

Matt: You’re wrong.

Brandy: Exactly. There’s nothing as far as when I was trying to get pregnant, maybe there are now, but nothing about how, not a book about telling you how to cope with being in the fertility section. Even when you’d wonder over to that section…it’s just like huh! I don’t want to be doing this.

Matt: Yeah.

Ashley: I don’t want to be here.

Brandy: Yeah. Is there a book to help me with this feeling, what do I do with this, this sucks! And that’s were, you know not the science behind it.

Matt: And I think all of our friends were having babies at the time they all happened relatively quickly after trying.

Brandy: Yeah. Mary got pregnant at 2 months, and then Alison got pregnant at the same month. So, it was like…

Matt: …just happened really great.

Brandy: Which was great. I’m so glad Mary went first.

Ashley: Thank you Mary!

Matt: Yeah, especially to have friends like that, once we were pregnant, it was just opened up the door for so many great things.

Ashley: How do you think your experiences differed from each other?

Matt: With the conception part?

Ashley: Just going through it.

Brandy: I know I felt like he couldn’t understand what it was like what it was for me to be feeling these things. And not that, he was awesome in everything, so awesome and so supportive, so helpful. But it’s like at the end of the day, I’m the one who’s in the body that might be pregnant. So, all the little things…like every time I went to the bathroom in those two weeks after ovulation I was always looking at the toilet paper. Was I spotting? Was there fluid? And so this was every time I was going to the bathroom. So, it would be on my mind 5-6 times a day! So, he wasn’t going through that so I of course felt like the more neurotic one and because I was thinking about it a lot more.

Matt: I think it was a mix; I had the reactions that Brandy had, a lot of the same feelings, but with a heavier weight on your shoulders than mine. I definitely got the “oh my god, what if there’s something wrong with me. What if I have testicular cancer and I don’t know about it? Or what if I have some sort of disease that’s making it impossible. What if I did something to myself in college? What if?” It just brought up these weird fears that were just totally not grounded. That made me feel like, oh man, I’ve done something terrible and there is something wrong with me. There was definitely that, but I would also have to say that the positive side, it was so, and it’s not even just looking back on it, it was so much fun that we had! During that time, we were having so much sex! And it was really, really fun. And especially looking back on it that was like our last glimpse, the last…

Brandy:…the last moments he ever had!

Matt: Well, yes of course. The last just the two of us having fun together. And that was really.

Matt: Yeah. Before we were parents, before we crossed over that threshold. So, basically I think part of that was really, really great. Just positive too, and sharing what a heavy burden it was to both of us. And because there was a big shift, the first half of the month was a real upper, and then it eventually got reduced where the sadness part would be like a day. There was like a morning…

Brandy:… yeah, when my period would come I would get in the bath and I would have a beer. I wouldn’t take a bath after I’d ovulated, which later after I was pregnant I found out, yes you could. But I like my baths really hot so, it was like I’d do that and have a big beer.

Matt: But how fun. That’s kind of fun. There are these weird things that you start doing and like, new traditions or new things that you discover are important. And a lot of those I think are really fun. That I look back on and think are really fun.

Brandy: Too there were some of the times that we would get so frustrated with the entire thing. Most of the time we were good at bringing each other up. Or you were good at bringing me up, because I think it was me that would get so frustrated. But I think there were 2 times that we just had a bitch session. A pity-party for ourselves and it felt so good! It was just like we were, we let out all. After a while we had all this baggage built up and we would just like let it go and complain for like an hour about how mad we were, how frustrated and then afterwards it was like, okay, now we just dumped that out and we can go on our merry way. And that felt really good. And that’s hard to do, because you want to feel like you’re positive and you don’t want to be putting stress, cause you know you shouldn’t stress, because you might have your period, or whatever, but that purging. You need purging! I remember specifically in one of the questionnaires the lady wrote back to me and said how do you deal when your period comes. And this woman said she would scream, go in her room and scream for like 2 minutes, And you know, that sounds like crazy, but that stuck in my brain. Yeah. Getting rid of that disappointment is huge.

Ashley: What I think is so beautiful is you finding out of that, you wrote a book. Tell me a little about that.

Brandy: I feel like I’ve told you a lot of the good stuff. But I still feel like there needs to be a book out there that’s for women that just like, one of those books that you read that you go, oh my gosh these people are going through the same thing that I’m going through. To read a book about how to get out of it, I don’t need that. I just wanted to talk with other women, I really wanted to just go to a coffee shop with another woman going through this. I didn’t care who she was, where she was, not anything about her. I wasn’t judging where she was from or what her age was, I just wanted to you know, talk about how this feels. And I feel like that was lacking.

Matt: Interestingly I think, it’s funny how that vanished. Your longing and your desire to have that book out there still exists, but it’s amazing that once pregnancy happened you cannot claim that group.

Brandy: I kind of felt weird because I felt I’d got out of it.

Matt: Right, it’s a very sudden shift, like you’re not even aloud. You shouldn’t even be allowed, like you couldn’t feel it anymore.

Brandy: Right. And I got an agent off of the book and he was trying to get it published and he said, “you know this is much more valuable with you not getting pregnant.” And I said, “Yeah, you know I realize that but you know…” He wasn’t saying I should do something about it, he was just telling me. And I understand that. After I did get pregnant and it kind of settled down for a little bit, but it’s kind of, you know I have a book fair, my brother wrote a book about money, and there’s a big book fair too and I talked to some people and so it’s actually being looked at by a publisher again. So, it sparked in me that there is such a need for this. But the thing that I, I love the book, but the only thing that I wish I had found the women from mothering rather than the women from the baby center. Because I think I got 60 responses, 60 questionnaires filled out and the book that I have now is paired down to the 25 that I feel like are written the best and stuff and the most diverse. But there was me and one other woman who didn’t do fertility drugs. So, possibly maybe why it’s not going anywhere is because maybe it’s something I need to revisit with a different group of women who are more natural-minded so there’s a book out there where not all these women out there are doing the fertility drugs. But I also know, now that I’m not in that group I kind of feel like I don’t fit in there as well. But I’m just kind of open to what it is. And with birth and with parenting, I am constantly thinking of books I want to write and articles that I’m slowly trying to get into. And writing about certain things like this. So, maybe it was a launching pad to show me that this really feels good, to help other women. To come from a place of honesty. I feel like I have found my truth of honesty through this too. It’s just like being so honest with people about what I’m experiencing, what they’re experiencing. I don’t know, that’s all been a lesson. Maybe it won’t see the light of day, and maybe it was just to help those 60 women who at the time really needed it. I don’t know I don’t really have any expectations to it doing anything. Of course no money expectations, you know “oh if this sells then” nothing. Hopefully it’s just doing what it’s supposed to do.

Ashley: If a couple was sitting here and they were trying what would you like to share with them?

Brandy: I want the answer to be nothing. But in terms of advice, I want it to be nothing because they are getting it from everywhere. But really…

Matt: I don’t know.

Brandy: Because everyone is so different. I feel like even with birth and parenting to, I’ve just learned to go out there and say my peace, what I’m feeling and what I feel like is helpful, is not going to be helpful to someone else. It’s kind of like I’ve learned to listen to what someone’s going through. And then bring some of my experience to help them in a situation, instead of just saying what I think. Like there’s plenty of women that, you know I think home birth is the most amazing thing, and I think every woman can do it and should try to do it. But, if I can say to a woman “you know I think home birth would be great for you!” and I know that’s not where she is at, I think to myself well, what piece of home birth that I really like can I give to her so that when she does her hospital birth, which I know she is going to do, it can be very helpful to her, so it’s not just me preaching. I feel like it would depend on what their situation was. If they were doing fertility drugs, I don’t know that I would steer them out of doing it, because that’s there path. But I would take something that we went through that could help them.

Matt: I’d almost just want to have some zen answer about the journey, I don’t know, because it’s all so cliché and it probably wouldn’t offer anything. It’s like speaking two different languages. I’m not sure there’s anything that we could say to a couple trying. Because that pain and that frustration, we are fortunate enough not to have to live with that anymore, so it’s almost offensive.

Brandy: I feel like our advice would be just listening.

Matt: Yeah. Good luck, I hope you get there.

Brandy: I felt that same way. Acknowledging what they’re feeling.

Matt: Right.

Brandy: I think that’s all we could offer. Because that’s really all that we can do anyway. You know you can suggest books for people to read and everything, there was a book that I read that I thought was really great called oh man, I can’t remember the name (The Infertility Cure), but it was about traditional Chinese medicine and trying to get pregnant. There is a woman who works out of Arizona or New Mexico and she does traditional Chinese medicine for people with “Infertility” and in her book she actually says she hates the word infertility because it makes it sound like you can’t ever get pregnant so she calls it “sub-fertility”. So it’s that kind of take on it, and so I immediately loved her. She talked about it in a really helpful way. That book was helpful and it talked about pressure points you can do and again it’s again controlling and feeling like you are doing something.

Matt: What’s actually positive that I think we could offer is find a couple of other couples who are going through it and share your story to them and communicate with them. If anything it offers comfort that there are a community of people out there that are struggling with this and that it’s not just you and you’re not broken and there are so many variables and so many things. That maybe just hearing other perspectives can offer some sort of comfort or something. Because that was useful, even reading those interviews from your book were the most helpful. And it didn’t offer anything other than oh great, all these other people out there… we’re not alone. And that was nice to know.

Brandy: And you know I say I’m so grateful that I went through that because it taught me to surrender control on something I couldn’t control and parenting is the exact same way. I can’t control when he’s going to sleep, how active he’s going to be and in little ways you can, but in the big ways, I can’t control this person. I can’t tell him, “oh, I would like to go shopping, grocery shopping at 3 o’clock today so make sure you are up and in a good mood and not wanting to eat lunch instead. And then he’s going to sit in the cart for 30 minutes.

Matt: Learning patience.

Brandy: Yeah. Patience and surrender. I think for parenting is just both…

Matt:… and there’s definitely something that like, it’s hard to say. I don’t know what it’s like to go off and the first time you have sex you’re getting pregnant. But there might be something to it for couple that tried a longer time, how much it must affect us in the way we feel about our child. Not that, who is to measure love or whatever. But there is something that maybe helps us in difficult times to be more patient to be more present. Or just try to understand his little point of view. And the troubles that he’s going through. Because we wanted it for so bad and couldn’t have it. So once you finally get it maybe you develop a way to step back and appreciate it a little quicker. That’s maybe unfair to say.

Brandy: There’s a wonderful quote in that Chinese medicine book, that says “we are the parents of the kids who know that they were truly, truly wanted.” It’s like, not that the other kids weren’t, but there is something different about it.

Matt: Yeah there is.

Ashley: I think there is a point to that, like with people who end up adopting. You know you wanted them so much, you traveled all the way around the world and picked you out. You know, it might not make you better parents, but it makes it different. It just somehow changes your thinking.

Matt: And it has to affect your parenting if you still remember those feelings you went through.

Brandy: Right. When you’re having one of those moments where you’re trying not to lose your mind, you think we might not have ever had this.

Matt: We are very fortunate.

Brandy: That’s the other thing with this, what if I never have kids? Nobody wants to go there.

Ashley: So, what did you do with that thought?

Brandy: Drank it away in a hot bath! I don’t know, that’s all tied into feeling broken. And I think that’s the most focused part of feeling broken was will we ever be able to have kids? What if we can’t. I think that was like the ultimate fear. A big nugget of fear.

Matt: And the more you fixated on that, the worse you felt. So, you just kind of distanced yourself from that. That was really at the base of it. Every day you are dealing with that and you just have to I don’t know, be able to get away from that.

Brandy: And I always envisioned us having kids. I think, trying to focus on that. And then there were so many times when I felt like how can we not have kids! We want kids so badly, we’re, we’d be so fun. And so in a sense that’s no good, because it means the universe would look at it like some people are more deserving and some people aren’t and that feels kind of gross. Because there are some people who can’t get pregnant

Matt: …and it’s not that they don’t deserve it. That’s true. But you know I think we also, we believe in this universe and this destiny and psychics and all these things that in some way gave us this ability to deal with this in a different way. In some way to help us with those fear questions, you know we would visit them and they would tell us wonderful little bits of information that would help us feel like, like we saw Amankeda and so many to help us make the decisions in our life. And for us that helps us.

Brandy: You know we saw Tim, you know Tim, and to have him tell you, oh there’s a soul waiting for you or you guys are going to be parents.

Matt: For us that was huge! So then it was easier to let go of that fear. Because we believe that is real, there is something tangible to that. So, I remember for me in times of me feeling really afraid I would always us that as a crutch. I would go, “well, I mean Amankeda is awesome and she’s really great at this and she said XX and she wouldn’t say that if it weren’t true.” So, that was a big crutch. It helped me keep the faith. Okay, we will get to this point. It just won’t be the way we expected it too. Or something.

Brandy: So, maybe my advice to a couple trying to get pregnant is “we are psychics and we see your baby in the near future!”

Matt: Yeah, I think the more alternative thinking you are, actually maybe that’s not fair. Maybe the more you have some kind of belief in something greater, maybe that’s all that is.

Brandy: Like religion.

Matt: Yeah, like religion. Whatever it is that helps you get through those difficult moments.

Brandy: Whatever helps you keep the faith.

Matt: Right keep the faith. And say, yeah this is going to turn out. But I just feel like psychics help because it’s such an awesome advantage, to me it’s more than an I believe this is true, for me I know it to be true so I find it a hugely beneficial thing. So, when I hear these things from people it’s very different from... Well, I guess there are some religious people that when they hear something, that’s fact. That’s probably the same crutch that we are leaning on. Because that’s what it was for me. I can lean on that during this tough time because I know that’s the truth… the more you can embrace this alternative thinking in anything tough, I think the more helpful it can be and more directly useful. Because it’s about me and my specific journey.

Ashley: So did you have any intention when you started out trying?

Brandy: We definitely had intentions about the kind of child we wanted, we definitely called in the perfect child for us, but as far as getting pregnant, it was more like “sweet”…

Ashley: With things that you experienced when trying, were there a lot of wake up calls, just the physical difference, in trying and not trying?

Brandy: It was funny. I would lay down and maybe in that 6 month -1 year period when it was harder, like I would put my butt up on the pillow for 3 minutes or so. So, yeah because if you have a tilted uterus, or just giving it a little help. What else would we do physically?Trying, one of the things that were funny is we’d be so tired and I’d go. “I’m ovulating, we have to and he’d be like okay”. And for him to ever be at a point where it was ever ahh…it was just like we were doing it so much! And to make yourself be in the mood. For me it was tough, I felt like it was easier because I knew what the end result was, so there was something more sexy about that because we were trying to make a person.

Ashley: What about positions for the sex of the baby?

Brandy: There were some times when I’d feel like, I should be on bottom so it wasn’t leaking as much. Oh but never for gender, but there were plenty of times when I would be not too focused, but I’d be heady the whole time. I’d be cheering on the little guys. You know “go, go, go!” Definitely times like that. And then the night that he was actually conceived, it was a rainy night and I love the rain. There’s something about the rain that I love and I was ovulating and I think when I was ovulating, we wouldn’t do it every day because we heard that too much isn’t good. But I think we’d do it every other day for four days, or something like that. We changed, I guess, but it was at the end of when I was ovulating and I thought maybe I’d already missed the window. But I thought, I did this thing that I do with myself a lot, were I looked for a sign. It was a gloomy night, and I said, if it starts raining, then we’ll do it. And then it started raining like two minutes later. And I was like, “hey, we should probably do it again.” Total coincidence, but I mean I thought it was kind of interesting.

Ashley: As far as alternative therapies, you started the acupuncture but you didn’t stay with it…

Matt: Did you do some chiropractor, or was that just after?

Brandy: I did do some chiropractor. Yep. I started and then I stopped because it was so pricey. But that’s the thing in all of this, I was taking herbs through the acupuncture. I was taking these terrible herbs that you actually make into a tea that was so nasty.

Matt: What about alternative healings? Did you have any from Almankeda? Or energy work?

Brandy: Yeah, I felt like Mary did one one time. Yeah, I don’t remember.

Ashley: I think I remember Almankeda doing one, but maybe that was just a reading.

Brandy: I sort of do too.

Matt: Me too. Like there was a really strong reaction.

Brandy: Yeah, she did. She was cleaning out my fallopian tubes and I think she said some old energy from the pill. I was on that for like 10 years.

Matt: Which was another of our concerns because 10 years is a long time.

Ashley: And y’all stopped the pill just right before you started right?

Brandy: Yeah, like a month.

Matt: I still wonder, and I think we both wonder like how much that may have affected it.

Brandy: Yeah, I wonder if I’ll ever use the pill again. Because I just feel so funny about it now that it tricks your brain into thinking it’s pregnant all the time.

Matt: And after 10 years of that there has to be a residual affect.

Brandy: Yeah, somehow.

Matt: I mean anything you take for 10 years would have such a massive affect.

Brandy: But I think that’s all we did.

Ashley: And so when you were going to alternative therapies, you were still not thinking we’ll go so many more months and then we’ll do a certain therapy.

Matt: Wait didn’t we do some fertility aide. FertilAid. Yeah.

Brandy: Yeah that was something all-natural we did do. That was something else I wanted to say, because when we were trying to have him tested or not, the reason we decided not to is because we didn’t want to spend the money, I think it was about $100, but the thing was if it did come back there was something, how would it change what we were doing?

Matt: We wouldn’t.

Brandy: So, we just felt let’s do the things we would do, like the supplements and I think you quit putting the computer in your lap.

Matt: Yes and I’d wear like shorts more, and I wouldn’t put my cell phone in my pockets. Little things like that. Wasn’t there something like caffeine, like I should drink it or I shouldn’t drink it.

Ashley: Yeah, I think it’s a man can and a woman shouldn’t.

Matt: Right, so I think I was drinking more coffee.

Brandy: Which is hilarious because how many people, how many women who’ve downed coffee are pregnant. That’s with everything I found, oh the more you drink pineapple juice. Or all these things, the healthier you are…

Matt: …and how many people get pregnant who are XX

Brandy: And how many people who are super-stressed out. In one of the interviews, in every one of them the stress thing was a trigger for her. And it’s so frustrating: Don’t be stressed. And in trying not to be stressed, you’re stressed. But this woman, she was saying that, I think she was trying to conceive her second time and was not getting pregnant. But in her first one, it was right after her mom died and totally stressed. And so that’s when I thought, I remember that moment sticking out in my head and thinking okay…if that can happen and you can get pregnant, stress is not the issue. And yeah, maybe in a bigger sense stress is part of are you open to this being are you in a place in your life where you can allow something to come in or are you so stressed in your own little world. But this stress it’s not the bigger issue.

Ashley: Exactly, when you are like the woman and you face the death of a parent, you are very open to new life. When you are grieving someone so huge..

Brandy: Exactly, you never know. But the thing that I hear about the stress is it puts the blame on the women, on the couple like they can control it. And that makes every moment, like you’re trying not to be stressed.

Matt: So true.

Ashley: Did you change any eating habits? Or fitness?

Brandy: You didn’t change anything, but the supplements.

Matt: Exactly, because I was already really athletic and eating good. More coffee and herbal supplements. And then I was already a vegetarian at that point and there’s a lot of stuff that you would eat with me.

Brandy: Yeah, I think I stopped drinking um, I wasn’t a big soda drinker, but I think I drank sprite and starting then I stopped drinking any caffeine. And then any time after I ovulated if there were wine or beer, I would never have it. Exercise, I remember there being a point where I was like, you know if I could just go to yoga more often, if I could just make the healthiest home for a baby, then a baby will come. Which was totally pointless. Which in the bigger sense of things, it wasn’t pointless you know, yoga is good for you for everything else. But is it going to make me have a baby, maybe not. So, do I want to put that pressure on myself, probably not. And I know that I would never do any ab work after I ovulated, because I didn’t want to hurt an impending fetus. And that is what was tough too. Because like Matt said, it felt like every month was a roller coaster, because I felt like every month I was a part of a group that I didn’t know if I could be a part of. First part of the month I was a girl trying to conceive. Second part of the month I was, I might be pregnant. So I was constantly feeling I could be in this group, but I couldn’t be in this group. So that part was really tough. And not knowing. And I felt like nobody else around me really understood even though I was thinking about it quite a lot I know I talked your ear off about it and I know I talked Mary’s ear off about it. And I know I’m sure it was a lot. Because even when Mary was trying to get pregnant this last time with Leo, what was it for 6 months or so you know every time I talked to her it would be like, “oh my god, I wonder what day it is, I could totally be pregnant.” And so I realized I’m sure this is exactly what I did for a year and a half. I was so glad she felt okay to call me about it because you guys were so good to listen to me about it. And I understand, if you’re not going through it you don’t want to hear someone else talking about it for 2 weeks.

Ashley: I had a hard time knowing when to ask. I didn’t want to, well I was sure it was such an emotional time and I didn’t even know how. So I would always ask, but then wasn’t sure.Brandy: I read in one of the books that it’s hard to be a friend to someone who is trying because you want to be a friend and that you care and are interested, but you don’t want to want to bring up the topic if they want to talk about it. And the thing is I didn’t mind talking about it in the first 2 weeks of the month because everything was fresh and new. And we might get pregnant this month. But then in those last couple of weeks it was, no actually the opposite. After my period came I didn’t really want to talk about it because the only news I had to report was, the period came. But then after I ovulated and we’d have sex a bunch, it was like “I don’t know it might be this month!” That was the hard part that sometimes I wanted to talk about it and sometimes I didn’t. But I think for the most part I always wanted to talk about it because I feel like I’m open like that. But um, it’s just the way some people would ask. That also depend on how people were open to, you know when people would say “are you pregnant yet?” family and things like that, I’d feel like you have no idea just what you are saying.

Ashley: Yeah, I told this guy before this meeting actually that I was going to interview a couple who had difficulty trying to conceive and he’s like, “don’t you know you just put it in.” And I was like actually, I’m sure people hear that stuff all the time. He said it to me, which was fine but people say things that you really don’t want to hear.

Brandy: Yeah! One of my friends was like, said something about and maybe I was talking about it, like it’s not as quick as we thought it’d be. Making a joke and she was like I got pregnant and I didn’t even know how I did, but I got pregnant the first time. And I’m thinking, do you really want to tell me this?

Matt: Where I’m not usually able to relate to a very religious person, most of the time, in my family the very religious people were the ones to understand my point of view more. They’re very religious and I would talk about the idea of sort of a bigger design, plan at work and we would like to wait for that to happen, and they were always like “Yeah!” It was one of things that was so weird. I can relate to you, like I can the senior citizens and that’s more than I can relate to my peers. There were just weird little moments like that I never expected, I never thought we could understand one another and here we are completely saying the exact same things, but with completely opposite meanings probably, but still the same, you know, comfort.

Brandy: I remember one moment where I was, one of my friends had just had a baby so I was at the hospital and I remember she had given birth to this little girl and so I was rubbing her feet trying to make her feel good and her father-in-law comes in and says, “Oh Brandy, when are you going to be next?” And we’d been trying for a little bit over a year, and granted I really can’t be mad at him because he doesn’t know, but it’s like those little comments really stung and for me it was really hard to bite my tongue. So, I’d normally say something funny back to them. I would say something joking like, yeah, we’re ready, but apparently the baby’s not… or something like that. And I felt like that was how I would deal with a lot of stuff with people, you know make it a joke so that I’m not going to get angry. But,

Ashley: It seems like taking the comments of people, or the whole situation in general, personally was huge. I can’t take it personal, it’s just the situation I can’t be so upset in dealing with it.

Matt: Yeah, I think that’s true. Just taking a step back and like “we’re not in control of this” and it is sort of oddly therapeutic. You know, it’s been said before but that idea of being part of something bigger than yourself, than your own needs: they go in different directions than you want them too, or that you expect them too or that you’ve driven them towards. You know, and there’s something really, really good for everyone that goes through something like that. Even though it’s horrifying and so miserable sometimes in the middle of it. Ultimately, you grow so much as a person in so many ways.

Brandy: And it taught me to, I don’t know if the right word is not judging people. But how I was saying that opened my eyes up to how many things did I say to people that weren’t helpful. So it was like we all do this to each other to a certain extent. Because we don’t know what they’re going through. I’ve never been through cancer so a friend who had cancer I’d probably said some things that everyone with cancer would probably say, “these are the things that people say that annoy me.” So, it’s letting people still say what they say and understand that there’s things with birth that people say something to me that were annoying, but I’m sure I said things, where I look back and I think oh my god, you know I said to my friend, “well, can’t you just bring the baby out to dinner, what’s the big deal?” and now I know. It’s just going through all these different things and I’m not sure if my whole life, you know if I’ll be sixty and say, “I can’t believe when I was fifty and said..” So, it’s more about accepting others. There are people that say things to us now that I find annoying to us, but since we went through all that we’re at a place where we go, “I understand.” You know it doesn’t make me like them any less. Just that I know where they are, in a stage of life and they’ll be at a different stage and probably look back on it like I do now.

Matt: And most the time it’s coming from a negative place, but many times it’s people that truly care about you and for you and for one reason or another, they love you and say these horrendous things. Unknowingly sometimes. It’s really helped us to bring ourselves to realize that they really do love us. They didn’t mean to say what they actually did say.

Brandy: And that’s when you know really who are the most meaningful people in your life because their intention + execution = why they are important in your life. Because they can do those two things beautifully. When sometimes parents can do one of those things great. But you need someone who can do both.

Ashley: Your biggest doubt or most prevalent thought in your head, would you say it came down to what if it never happens? Or would you say it’s, what would you say?

Brandy: It wasn’t most often what if we can’t ever, but that’s really what, that’s the core. But I think what I was mostly feeling was I guess, what if I have to use fertility drugs. I think was more, you know, what if we have to go to plan B. Which is like the path that we don’t want to go.

Matt: Yeah.

Brandy: And I don’t think I ever said that. But I think looking back on it that’s where I was scared to go.

Matt: That’s probably true for me too. Although I think “What if it never happens?” definitely, that was definitely real question I was afraid of too. Both of them were probably equal strong to me.

Brandy: I thought, you know if we do fertility drugs it’ll probably happen.

Matt: Yeah, I don’t think we ever really got to the point, you know for the most part we believed that it would happen, at some point. So, we never really lost like total hope, I mean at moments we did, but I think the most consistent question was, “how much will we have to compromise ourselves to make this happen?”

Brandy: Right and at what point are we going to? Like where was our line? You know, well, it’s been six years…

Matt: Yeah, and it’s a myriad of thoughts…like “well, we want to have”, “perhaps we better…”

Ashley: A hard time to really define, you were just trying to stay with it.

Brandy: Exactly and we were re-evaluating every 6 months it felt like. I remember at a year and a half everybody would ask after a year, are you guys going to take fertility drugs? It’s like everybody knew, even that people that never tried to get pregnant knew about fertility drugs. So, it was after that point I said, “oh no, we’re not into that, but check back with me in six months” I always left the door open. I understood why people did it and I understood those feelings. I wasn’t there yet, but I knew that that could happen.

Ashley: In the now, going through the process, I think you guys have talked about having kids again, but later on. Is there anything that blatantly starting out, you would do differently, in going to your second?

Brandy: You know I feel like, I would definitely not have such a problem in having control over it. Granted if I was, actually that doesn’t even matter. I was going to say if I was eating or living an unhealthy lifestyle I would get in better shape. But I don’t think it’d feel like I have to do something to make it happen faster. And I think from the beginning that would be better. But I think everything feels like it’s going to be different the second time. For one, I have a constant someone who I’m doing something with all day. There was no distraction from that. You know being pregnant, talking to Mary, if goes so much faster in a sense because you’re not thinking about it and all that.

Matt: And I think just the sheer, what we went through being so long, we’ll be able to get through whatever it is because we did wait and we did get pregnant, it’s possible. Even if it went on longer, I’m not sure we’d even think of it in those terms anymore, because we’ve seen it take time and we’ve seen we did get pregnant. So, now it’s possible again. There’s no reason why it couldn’t

Brandy: And that we’ve been through it once. I was talking with Mary about this this morning being pregnant and the first time around the morning sickness it feels like “oh my god, what if this never goes away!?” What if my nine months are like this miserable? But then she was saying, “you felt that well, and you know that it you come back to your normal self” so you deal with it so differently. One of my good friends made a comment to me that was kind of crappy. But along the lines of she said, so you and Matt had such a hard time conceiving your first baby, are you guys going to start trying really early in case it takes you another year and a half? And I think it’s just a time-by-time case. The other thing that I always pondered too is the timing thing, timing is everything. So, take our situation, for example we tried a year and a half. You know what if we hadn’t tried that year and a half, and just started that month that made it the year and a half…do I think that we’d have been pregnant immediately? So I feel like it’s all so much about timing and where you are in that changes everything. You know we could look at ourselves and say we would have never gone through any of those emotions, any of that learning, so I think some of my friends that did get pregnant quickly. You know, what if they’d have started trying before they got pregnant, maybe they would have gotten pregnant right away, or maybe they wouldn’t have. So, that’s the timing thing, which is so interesting. So, my point is for her to say that, it’s like her say “it is fact you have a hard time getting pregnant”. So, she doesn’t get what I think.

Ashley: What are you most grateful for from this experience?

Matt: Getting pregnant!

Brandy: I think it was just the lesson about the surrender and control. You know for those of us who are self-motivated and want to go out and do things in our own life. You know, when you’ve done what you can and it’s still isn’t working, it’s being at peace.

Ashley: Well, that’s it. Thank you for the interview on trying to conceive.

Brandy: Thank you that was cool.

Matt: Yeah, that was good.